Something reminded me of this the other day although I’m not sure what that actually was. H was a guy in his late thirties at the time, I was only in my early twenties but he was so exciting. And it was cool going to a bar and him ordering some expensive rich smokey scotch and me, a poor postgrad student, being more accustomed to the good of student beer of choice VB *insert shudder*.
Anyway one night we were at his apartment in the Docklands getting it on when he said, “I want you to punish me.”
Okay this was new.
“Ummm what for?” I asked.
He reeled off a litany of things starting with some minor theft, ending with cheating on his then-pregnant wife and committing fraud via the company he was working for.
Innocent vanilla me joked, “say ten Hail Marys my son.”
“What exactly is a Hail Mary?” He asked. “I mean obviously I know *of* them but what exactly is it?”
Well I’d never been to church. I’d only heard it said by priests in the confessional on tv. And clearly I was no priest. The lack of dangly bits between my legs precluded my joining the ultimate boys club. Mind you given all that’s come out about them in recent years that’s not a bad thing. So I had to admit I didn’t know.
“It’s beside the point anyway. I’ve been a bad boy. Punish me!” He demanded.
I thought maybe a smack or two on the butt might suffice.
I was wrong.
He told me what he wanted me to do and let’s just say that it made me blush back then. Even today I’m relatively vanilla. I know that 50 shades is condemned as being wannabee in the bdsm world and even now I’m still more 40 shades than anything else. I may, had this happened to late thirties me instead of early twenties me, have asked for his paddle or whip. But back then? No. Instead I punished him a different way. One I feel is probably still quite effective. I dressed in world record time and left him in his apartment with one major case of blue balls.
And thus ends Fatgirls tale of the first time I learnt punishment and pain could equal pleasure.
I never heard from him again. I wonder why? 🤷♀️🤷♀️
Fatgirl dating hurdles example #3: Getting naked.
[Just a quick caveat here: pretty much all women would have some level of nervousness about this hurdle unless they are completely 100% body confident. But it’s a bit more daunting and complex for us bigger girls.]
After you’ve passed the first two hurdles- the looks test and the first date- you may find yourself facing another hurdle. (I’m skipping the second date or third date hurdle as it’s not really a fat girl dating hurdle in my opinion.) Maybe further dates have followed, maybe you are now in a relationship or maybe not, maybe you have sex but never see him again, or maybe you are just doing the casual fuck buddy thing but if you are still seeing each other then inevitably you’ll be getting nekkid. Sure to get here you’d have passed the looks test in person but it’s one thing to be fully clothed and another to be naked.
I have never been completely naked with a guy in my whole life. Not once in 38 years. They have been but I’ve always had some item of clothing still on- generally a top. Either with or without a bra. I remember one time the man (aka J1) undid my bra and I pulled it off without taking my top off and he then pulled my top up to get to my boobs and even whilst I was enjoying it there was a part of me that was on red alert saying “hold on- he can see your fat tummy dude! Abort mission!” But it clearly didn’t bother him.
With J2 it was the same but for one of the first times in my life the fact that he could see my fat didn’t seem to bother me. Granted it was dark though. It was quite awhile before we did it in day time but by then we’d had sex a few times so I wasn’t so self conscious. (My tank top remained on still!)
One guy, L, had sex with me during the daytime and I was wearing a dress so when we were getting down he had hiked it up a bit but I’m fairly certain that if I was wearing a top it would have stayed on!
Recently I came across an article that looked at the depictions of women’s bodies throughout history in art. And it showed that curves have almost always (apart from some periods like the 1920’s) been considered womanly, a good thing. But that didn’t automatically help my self-consciousness. Another thing I’ve that I’ve never once in all my sexual life done is to be on top. The idea that I’d be squashing a guy or that all my fat would be wobbling about has meant that it’s just always been something I avoid. And it turns out that many girls with even a little bit of weight through to bigger girls feel the same way. A friend of mine, G, told me her biggest fear is 69 when a guy says sit on my face in case she suffocates him.
This despite a male friend telling me that if a guy likes you and you’re getting hot and heavy he’s not going to see you take your top off and then suddenly say yeah nah, imma pass. But I don’t know how true that is. Though some of the guys I’ve slept with were so horny that they probably wouldn’t have cared?
A magazine survey a few years back stuck in my mind because it found that over 70% of men would date a confident bigger woman over an insecure smaller woman. And that about 60% of them would try to help their partner feel better about themselves if they called themselves fat. But the stat that stuck in my mind was when asked if they were ever disappointed when seeing a woman naked around 70% said no.
Similarity I recall science telling us that attraction is actually less important and that sexual attractions more about men’s brains thinking sub consciously about mating so things like how fertile we smell and things like our personality traits that would make us a good mate and mother to their child.
The thing is that- for me at least- it’s not just shame in my body but also fear that the guy may be ashamed of my body and instantly lose their attraction. Which is why I think that first time you get naked is a major fat girl dating hurdle. Sure I can tell myself the common platitudes that if they weren’t into me then we wouldn’t have gotten this far or that not all men like skinny chicks. But that doesn’t stop my mind from running crazy the whole time. I know I’m not alone and that this isn’t limited to bigger girls but I do think bigger girls are more concerned about positions that hide their tummy or sex in the dark than other women may be. I still can’t help but think- despite having got to this hurdle- what if after having seen me naked the guy doesn’t want to see me again?
So here are some tips on how to work towards getting over this getting naked hurdle:
1.) Let him touch you. Touching is something that provides a connection between partners. If he’s touching you it means he’s not grossed out and running for the hills. Especially let him touch the parts of you that you are insecure about. (For me that’s mainly my tummy but also a bit my butt and thighs and upper arms.)
2.) Don’t spend your time mentally comparing yourself to his previous partners. (The chances are by now they may have been mentioned or you’ve stalked his Facebook and insta so you know what his previous girls friends have looked like, especially ones he may have been extra serious with.) Nor should you be comparing yourself to his first female crush or whoever you see on magazine ads/tv/the back of the bus etc. Keep in mind that they have likely had their images retouched. Plus you have no idea what they personally think about their own looks- the chances are they are critical too about something they see as their problem area.
3.) The more you are naked with your new partner the more you will get used to it. It will become something familiar and more comfortable. You will start seeing yourself in a new light and see things that you hadn’t before like thinking yes my boobs are actually beautiful.
4.) Don’t say things like “oh don’t touch my tummy, it’s so fat” or “can I have some more of the sheet so I can pull it up to my neck to hide my fat?” Aside from then drawing his attention to the areas you consider problem areas and thus inevitably inviting him to look at them in a critical way guys love a woman with confidence.
So just think next time you are getting naked with a new guy that it’s more your fear or your worry or your shame about your nakedness than his. The chances are he’s too busy thinking how lucky he is to notice your cellulite or the tummy roll (and FYI everyone- even skinny/fit women have this when bent at certain angles!).
I’ve come to the point in my life that despite the fact I desperately want a partner and to have a kid that I can say to myself that I’d rather be single than be with someone who doesn’t love and value me. Over the years I have seen far too many of my friends in toxic relationships, places where they weren’t happy but they stayed. I watched as they often started to lose themselves and made the other person’s happiness their only priority. As they put up with bullshit because they thought the pain that the toxic relationship brought them was better than the pain of losing and letting go of the person that they loved so much.
Some because their culture saw other things as more important than love and happiness, some because they thought they could do no better, some because they had a kid with them and some because they loved that person so much they’d forgive anything and everything and as a result were stuck in that cycle. I’ve had many an argument with people over the years who say if they weren’t happy they’d leave but they don’t understand sometimes there’s that almost battered woman syndrome affect where they just *can’t* walk away. I’ve never been a victim of BWS but a forensic psych unit at uni really made me think and see that “just walk away” isn’t that simple. And toxic relationships- some where there’s no abuse as such, some where there’s physical abuse, some where there’s mental abuse, and some where there’s a mixture- have that same cyclic response.
As a friend I truly think it’s one of the worst things to see someone you care about in these types of toxic relationship. You want to support them but at the same time you want to shake them and say wtf mate, you deserve so much more!
So what is a toxic relationship really? How do you know if you’re in one? Why do they stay?
By definition, a toxic relationship is a “relationship characterized by behaviors on the part of the toxic partner that are emotionally and, not infrequently, physically damaging to their partner…a toxic relationship is not a safe place. [In essence] it [a toxic relationship] is characterized by insecurity, self-centeredness, dominance, control. [One where by staying] we risk our very being. These [toxic] relationships have mutated themselves into something that has the potential, if not corrected, to be extremely harmful to our well being.” (1)
How do you know if your relationship is one of these toxic ones? Well there are red flags, signs that many chose to ignore because of the cyclic nature of these relationships (more on this later including those which are abusive). Such as criticism. Not the criticism that comes from a positive place that’s to help the person or relationship but more so that used to express contempt or disdain where it makes the other person feel so unvalued, unloved and worthless. There’s also arguing without communicating. By that I mean over and above the normal arguments that any relationship will have, where it’s more about yelling over one another and no real communication and therefore nothing is solved. Or when you avoid your partner all the time because the energy when together is completely negative. Also when you are no longer yourself. Yes you will change within a relationship, that’s a given, but there’s a difference when the change is bigger. (2) Something also like a constant struggle for power. Suzanne Lachman, Phd, suggests imagining your relationship as a seesaw. “If both partners understand their power (or are empowered), the seesaw stays relatively level and balanced…But if one person in the relationship has brought in a feeling of powerlessness, [they] may try to compensate by baring down on the seesaw, shifting [their] weight, and perpetually uprooting, destabilizing, or ungrounding [their] partner on the other side.” (3) And also jealousy where your partner wants you all to his/herself, so much so that you barely see friends or family because they monopolise your time. In extreme cases this also includes where they may stop you from going out with say single friends or drinking.
There are also behaviours that are toxic that most people would think of as normal within a relationship. The problem here however is that, in part, many unhealthy relationship habits are baked into our culture. As Mark Manson puts it "we worship romantic love — you know, that dizzying and irrational romantic love that somehow finds breaking china plates on the wall in a fit of tears somewhat endearing — and scoff at practicality or unconventional sexualities.” (4) In his article he lists the 6 behaviours that psychological research has shown are actually toxic rather than just part of the usual ebb and flow of a relationship. These include keeping score (you know the whole well you got drunk at my 21st and I had to spend the night looking after you despite it being my big night so I got revenge by flirting with my hot work colleague), excessively passive aggressive behaviour (finding small and petty ways to piss your partner off so you can feel like being mad at them is totally justified), blaming your partner for your own emotions (you had a shitty day at uni but when you wanted that sympathy and support he was busy playing call of duty or busy with work) or buying solutions to problems (a holiday will solve everything right?).
Despite this these relationships aren’t necessarily hopeless but if they are going to work they need a lot of hard work to be changed into a healthy relationship. The paradox is that in order to have a reasonable chance to turn a toxic relationship into a healthy relationship, we have to be prepared to leave it. (1)
One reason that seems pretty common for why people stay in a toxic relationship where they are unhappy more than they are happy is cultural reasons. Culture, tradition and religion are often bedfellows in emphasising that a marriage should be for keeps which is at odds with the way the law views marriage, which is more as a contract that, if breached, provides remedies such as divorce. (5)
I was talking to a guy online, I think it was “Tagged” and he told me he was married. I wasn’t shocked. I mean half of tinder seems to be made up of married men and it’s just as prevalent on other dating sites or apps. (Take me and Married Guy for instance.) But rather than abuse him or just delete him or ghost him I asked him why he was looking for sex online if married? He was an Indian man and he told me that the marriage was great at first, they had two kids together, but, as time went by she stopped wanting to have sex with him so he was looking for that online. I said so why not leave? He said it was his culture that they stayed. And that he loved her and they were close and happy. Just not intimate. To tell the truth that could all have been a load of bullshit, I’ve had my fair share of poor me my wife has no time for me/my wife is away for work a lot/my wife’s no longer into sex and even one guy who claimed his wife physically couldn’t have sex with him anymore but because she had a major psychiatric illness he didn’t want to leave her because she would hurt herself or kill herself. (Needless to say I blocked him pretty damn quick.)
I’ve spoken briefly about a friend who stays with her partner because he’s a good provider, not because she’s in love with him anymore. They do have periods in the relationship where things are happy and harmonious enough though she doesn’t talk about ever being intimate (except the 3 times she was pregnant when clearly they did the deed) and by the same token I rarely- if ever- hear her talk about loving him. I know she used to talk about it- they were about 22/23 when they first met and he was her first everything. Back then she couldn’t get enough of him. Now the way she talks about him is in a detached manner. And it’s usually more bitching about him. He even tells her if she leaves he will get everything including the kids (unlikely), or her own mother tells her that she’d be selfish to leave because the kids get supported better within the marriage, or her own sister says she’d be on her husbands side if they broke up. I can’t imagine spending the rest of my life- what could equate to another 40 plus years- with a man whom she refers to only as “[my] husband” and never talks about him with any kind of love, romance or heck even traces of feelings just because he works hard and provides luxuries for them!
Probably the most common reason I see and hear for people staying in toxic relationships is they genuinely believe that they either couldn’t do any better or they would be alone forever if they walked away. Whilst they might know intellectually that nobody should have to settle for less than they deserve their emotions leave them conflicted. Underneath all of these rationalizations is a deep seated fear of being alone. Think back to your childhood. We’re you given many- or even any- examples of how to be alone on tv, movies, books, or the internet? Instead the chances are it was about how to make it work with your partner rather than to walk away and be happy alone until you found the right partner. Sure there’s nothing wrong with looking for love but very few people know how to be alone and happy. Too often the pleasure they find in a relationship is the release of not being by themselves in the world rather than love with their partner. (6)
As Terry Gaspard wrote “too often I hear [people] who are coupled up rationalise while they are still in a relationship when…they shouldn’t be [saying] things like ‘I know my relationship isn’t perfect, but at least he doesn’t yell at me’ or ‘he is a really good dad.’…[things like that remind me] that breaking up with someone is an act of courage.” (6)
Sometimes it’s the partner who has put these thoughts in their head either with subconscious actions or conscious words, but often it’s the person’s own insecurities at play too. Or perhaps there’s still a part of them that doesn’t want to believe you can do better? (7) It’s even been suggested that these people just don’t *want* to find someone better, an argument that’s attracted a fair bit of detractors. There was even a book written by Dr Henry Cloud saying that, essentially, there are plenty of people out there if you really wanted to. Carolyn Kauffman, who has a doctorate in psychology, finds this annoying. As she wrote this is giving out the implicit message that they just need to try harder. (8)
I have a couple of friends like this. In truth I have to admit I belong here too. After all I accepted a fuck buddy relationship with J1 and Married Guy because I thought that something was better than nothing. And I thought to myself well hey at least they actually *want* me unlike most of the male population. I didn’t allow myself to think too hard about the fact that I was allowing the idea that I was fuckable but not dateable. Another guy I know, D, has offered me a fuck buddy relationship too but I haven’t taken him up on that offer because I’ve decided that I have to stop settling for less than I really want. How can I expect men to see me as being worth more than just causal sex if even I don’t think I am? In my case my insecurity is mainly related to my weight, but it also goes back to my teenage years and the damage the relationship with the man I lost my virginity to did to me and my psyche.
Two of my friends are in situations where I do believe they stay with a partner or return to him over and over because they think they can’t do any better. In one case she’s overweight too so perhaps she thinks like I do- or did-, in the other case she may have a couple extra kilos on board but she’s definitely not what I would consider fat- though her husband often tells her that she’s a whale! (He’s a charmer that one!) In both cases I haven’t ever really asked them why they stay or go back to someone with whom they weren’t exactly happy and who show them no love or affection and barely even sleep near them let alone have sex with them. One of them admits she can’t even remember they slept in the same bed let alone had sex. This is because he often falls asleep on the pull out bed playing xbox (or PlayStation or wii or whatever the f game console all the cool kids are using these days), in the other case he often sleeps in another room because he snores, but to me they kind of seem like excuses not to share a bed with the woman they are in a relationship or married to. A third friend is kind of a combination of a few examples- she thinks she cannot do better as a bigger person and thus puts up with her partner cheating on her and even hitting her. (I’ll look more at cases of physical abuse in a follow up blog post.) Interestingly both have said to me at various times if they found themselves single again they wouldn’t bother looking for a new relationship anywhere, that they’d just be happy enough as is, with their kids.
And kids, it seems, is the third most common reason why people stay in relationships they aren’t happy in. They think it’s the right thing to do to give the children that perfect nuclear family. A former friend of mine had lost her older children so when she had another child with her new partner she went on and on about making memories and giving [the child] the “perfect childhood.” She was overcompensating and I’m sure she knew it- especially when the kid was spoilt rotten! Another person I knew stayed with his wife for something like 4 years “for the kids.” They didn’t sleep in the same room, were barely home at the same time, didn’t even really speak when they were home at the same time and never showed the other affection. One of the kids even picked up on it asking her dad why he never hugged mummy like her friends daddy’s did.
But is a relationship where mum and dad barely speak, unless it’s to argue, show no affection to one another and the energy in the house is always so thick with negativity better than being in a situation where they may have two homes but they also have a mum and dad who are actually happy? According to child psychologist Kimberley O’Brien the answer to that is a big no. And that parents pretending to their kids that the relationship is fine are fooling themselves. “Kids are really sensitive to changes to things like voice tone and parents’ stress levels”, she says. (9) Yes there are many benefits to children having a mum and dad together- such as the children are less likely to divorce when older or are less likely to engage in delinquent behaviour or get pregnant early- but if a relationship isn’t working then staying just for the kids is when problems arise. (10) Because there is a bigger impact on the children in these cases than you realise. For instance the kids pick up on a lot more than adults realise (like the friend I mentioned who asked her dad why he never hugged her mum), and ultimately two happy seperate parents are better than two together yet miserable parents. (11)
The final reason I see for people staying in toxic relationships that are way past their use by date is purely that they love that person more than anything and forgive them anything and everything and as such the partner knows what he or she can get away with and thus the cycle of this toxic relationship continues over and over and over and it’s damn hard to break. But it *can* be done. As mentioned up above with time and hard work it can be fixed provided both parties are willing.
Madeline Fugere, Ph.D, names some of the most common reasons why we may stay in relationships that whilst not abusive are still toxic and not great for us. 1) We can be satisfied with an unsatisfactory relationships. Perhaps it’s because we have low self esteem, thinking ourselves unattractive, or that they simply have low standards from what they expect to receive in a relationship. 2) A shift in priorities. We tend to see our romantic partners positively but sometimes that is unrealistic. What this means is that effectively we view characteristics that our partners have as more important and more valued than other characteristics. Like a generous partner may make up for a partner not being thoughtful? 3) Low quality alternatives. If you perceive alternatives- like being alone or in another relationship- as lower-quality alternatives, you are more likely to stay, even in an unsatisfying relationship. 4) Manipulation. If your partner is aware that you want to leave the relationship, he or she may use different methods of manipulation to force you to stay such as emotional manipulation like belittling, demeaning or even threats of violence against you or a future partner. The distress associated with emotional abuse or the physical implications of intimate partner violence are strong enough deterrents to those seeking to leave a relationship that women who are psychologically distressed may not feel like they even have the ability to leave the relationship. 5) Investment. When you have long-term investments with a partner such as a business, a mortgage, an investment property or children it can be harder to leave. And, last but by no means least in my humble opinion is 6) Love. Psychologists distinguish among three different components of attitudes- the cognitive component or thoughts, the affective component or feelings and the behavioural component or actions. And even though these components may not be aligned with each other, such as your thoughts being negative but your feelings positive. We may continue to love our partners, even though we consciously recognize that we are involved in bad relationships. (12)
Psychologists have developed something they have dubbed the “interdependence theory”, which is essentially the science of relationships. The theory states that, in essence, each partner will evaluate “[their] personal satisfaction with the relationship by assessing costs and benefits…[and as long as the] perceived benefits [will] outweigh perceived costs [they] are happy with [their] relationship.” (13) We use pros and cons list for many things these days- do we move, get a new job, go on holiday, get a new car, etc- so why not with relationships too? Relationship satisfaction relies heavily on the following three things:
* They’ve already invested heavily in it, giving them the sense that the relationship must have some value.
* They see no viable alternatives that are better than the current relationship.
* They currently feel satisfied with the relationship.
In a recent article psychologist Levi Baker et al gave some insight that might help explain why people stay in an unhappy toxic relationship and continue that cycle over and over. They note that even the best relationship is bound to have rough patches. Career changes, illness of a family member or even the birth of a child can bring new stressors into a relationship which will significantly reduce relationship satisfaction for both partners. But they remain committed because this commitment isn’t “based on a current level of satisfaction with the relationship…[but rather] it depends on the past as expected relationship satisfaction in the future.” (13) In practice what this means is that your current level of satisfaction doesn’t signal commitment. Instead it shows whether there are problems with the relationship that need addressing. Any dissatisfied feeling tells you to put more work into your relationship. In fact, says David Ludden Ph.D, “ just doing something to improve your relationship, such as devoting more time to your [partner] or seeking couple’s therapy, can boost your expectation for a happier marriage in the future, thus bolstering your commitment to work things out.”
But when people can’t envision an alternative that’s better than the unhappy arrangement they’re in, they may stay and try to make the best of a bad situation. These couples find ways to mitigate the strife in their marriage, ending up as housemates rather than soulmates. They may derive little happiness from their relationship, but they don’t expect it, either. And some, perhaps many, still find sufficient happiness from friendships or other activities in their lives. (13)
NB: as this blog post was so big I’m going to do a separate one about BWS (and emotional abuse). How can you tell if they (or perhaps even yourself) are in one of these? How do you support a friend when you know- or at least feel- that what they are doing isn’t the right thing for them? And, furthermore, what do you do when the toxic relationship turns violent or there is mental abuse in play?
Everyone has their story of “the one that got away.” I’m not sure it’s entirely possible but I’ve got two “ones that got away.” One was my fault, the other less so. Ironically they both had the same name too- just spelt differently, one with a ph in the middle, one with a v.
S with a V was the first. I was 22-23 when I met him at work. My experience with men up until then had been terrible. My first love, the first man I had slept with, had pretty much fucked me up for a few years and I was still feeling those effects. At the time I had feelings for a guy C, I’d worked with before S, but it was never going to go anywhere. He hated the idea of marriage and kids and even thought me wanting a new car was materialistic. But he and I had many intellectual debates and ended up at the same uni. I stayed at his place a few times but nothing ever happened. In hindsight this is a good thing! (Irony: J, C and S all worked for the same company along with me just in different stores. Talk about keeping it in the pizza family.)
S, however, was in a relationship. It was his first, and only, girlfriend from when they were about 15ish. (He ended up marrying her.) And it was, to put it mildly, a pretty turbulent relationship. They fought all the time and he confided in me quickly as we clicked instantly when working together. We both had the same wacky sense of humour and in between deliveries we would sit and chat. On slow nights I might go out with him on a close delivery or vice versa to chat more. He confided in me about his girlfriend. Some of the things he told me made me look at him askance; how the fuck was he still with a girl who got jealous if he even made a female friend yet she went to a party where they played spin the bottle and she pashed a few guys and when he got shitty about it she turned it back on him and somehow he became the one in trouble? She was forever cracking the shits at him for no reason whatsoever. When she would ring him he wouldn’t know if she was going to be nice or she was going to abuse him for some imagined problem. She was forever out partying, drinking and doing drugs. He was at uni, she worked as a waitress and I think was doing a TAFE course. Because we got along so well we would often chat after work and then he’d head home and if she was there she would go nuts because she thought we were shagging. I remember something he said once- “at least if we were I’d know you were sane and I’d not be in the shits all the time with a schizo girlfriend.” I just sort of laughed it off but that night, back home, I realised I had a bit of a crush on him.
To counter that I’d spend more time with C, the guy I had feelings for. My friends often joked that maybe C was gay when he’d had me in his bed a few times with no reaction. We often went out for drinks. Even though C was a couple of years older than me he was on his P’s because of a drink-driving incident. In his past he had been a bit of a bad boy- alcohol and drugs. But before we met he’d pulled himself together, gone back and finished school, done a tafe course (I can’t remember if it was a certificate or diploma) and had started at my uni. Occasionally he would do things that gave me hints that maybe he liked me- such as putting an arm around me, or rubbing my arm and asking if I was cold, once grabbing my hand when I had cracked the shits with him and saying come stay at mine. But, ultimately, nothing happened. We ended up losing contact maybe three or four years later when he cracked the shits with me for not wanting to go drinking that night even though I explained because of my back surgery sometimes I couldn’t just be so spontaneous. After that he refused to reply to another email. (The days before FB or early days of it but he wouldn’t have had it anyway and I have looked his name up occasionally but not found him.)
But back to the one who got away. He would sometimes kind of flirt with me and I let him because harmless flirting seemed okay. We wanted to have a drinking night one night, as mates, but his girlfriend went apeshit so that got nixxed. Then one morning he rang me at home. We were both working that night (Saturday), me until 9:30, him until 10 or 10:30. I hadn’t seen him since the weekend before and he told me he and the girlfriend had broken up last Sunday. I was like are you okay? He said yeah, it was the right thing to do. And the fact was he had been talking about breaking up for awhile, before he started sometimes flirting with me even. Anyways he was like so wanna have that beer night since she can’t say no. I was off my P’s by then so could have a few without a major issue driving but he’s like you can crash here. (He was in the caravan at his dad’s house.) I was like oh okay, why not. (There were probably plenty of reasons why not truth be told!) The topic of the girlfriend came up again- I can’t remember how or why- but I *do* remember him saying something like but that’s okay you can give me a hug tonight right? I was like sure.
So I finished work but I went on S’s deliveries with him and we chatted and when finished I followed him home. We had a beer and then went to his brother’s house for a bit (with my hash cookies) and then back to his. We were just sitting around chatting and drinking beer. There may have been a little flirting but not a lot. When suddenly the girlfriend turns up. She’s here for “her stuff” after the concert she had been to that night (it was one of those slightly psychedelic rock bands from the late 1990’s, a band I remember I liked back in high school like three odd years before). Seeing me she said “replaced me already?” I was quick to say “no!” S was just watching while she grabbed a few things and then she went out the van and he followed her. He was out there awhile, I was sitting drinking my beer thinking okay I haven’t drank too much it may be better to go home. So when he came back in as she left I said “maybe I should go.” “Please don’t.” Was his reply. So I didn’t.
We kept sitting on the bed drinking beer, listening to music or watching tv and chatting. At some point in this he said to me, “so where’s my hug?” Hence we ended up half lying half sitting for awhile with our arms around each other, only moving when I finished the end of my beer. (One should never ever leave beer in the bottle, this is a philosophy I live by to this day!) After that he lay down and was like come on, so I did too. I was on the inside (next to the wall of the caravan), facing the wall and he was lying behind me, facing me, his arms around me. We lay like that for awhile. Then at some point I became aware of him moving his body closer to mine. And I would then reciprocate and do the same. Anyway next thing you know he’d rolled us over and he was lying on top of me kissing me. We made out for awhile, he spent some quality time with my boobs and another part of my body. For some insane reason I said to him I didn’t want to have actual sex. He’s like that’s okay, can we still fool around? I said yes. So we continued. Whilst this was happening we had a shock thinking his ex was back so my clothes were quickly fixed. It wasn’t, it wasn’t anyone. By then I had to go the toilet and we went inside and went the toilet and came back out.
We had another beer and then he started kissing me again. He said how much I turned him on and how gorgeous I was. I said dude you haven’t even had that much beer or hash cookies! He laughed and said no, you are, let me show you how much and placed my hand on his work pants covered erection. Im not big on talking too much about sexual details- even with mates to a degree unless I’ve had a few lol- but I will say he got a BJ.
Then we got ready for bed. I turned my back to him to put my pjs on (. my yellow flannelette ones with I believe teddies or dogs on them). Whilst doing this he asked me “The Question.” The one I regret answering how I did to this very day! He asked it casually but I think kind of hopefully, “but you don’t want a relationship do you?” “Nope.” I said. “Damn.” He said. ‘Damn!’ I thought. Why the fuck had I just lied and told the guy I had a major crush on that I didn’t want to be with him when I did? I have analysed that lie a few times over the years. One theory I came up with was I lied because he may have ended up back with his ex and I would have looked like an idiot but my prevailing theory is that I lied because I didn’t know what he was going to say and I may have looked like a total fuckwit! If I had known he would say that I would have told the truth. But I couldn’t take it back.
He slept on the floor that night rather than in the bed with me because he thought it would make the girlfriend feel better if that was the case and they got back together though he did say he wouldn’t take her back because what she had done was fucked. (He did tell me what she had done and how the breakup had gone down but I can’t remember the details now.)
In the morning we went inside to get breakfast (I just had a coffee cos of my whole not eating in front of people especially those I have crushes on policy), and I met his Dad, his Dad’s new (younger) wife and the one or two kids. I remember chatting with the kids for awhile and them wanting to show me toys. When I left he gave me a hug, said he’d see me at work Weds but we would email before then.
We did email. He told me his brother told him he really liked me, like better than he did his ex. He said he spoke to the ex once but nothing came of it. That weds I was nervous going to work. It was the firs time i would see him after what had happened. Would it be be awkward? But when we first saw each other- maybe twenty odd minutes into my shift- he acted like he always did. We were pretty busy so it was awhile before we got a chance to talk when we both got back from deliveries at the same time. And he mentioned “the girlfriend.” My heart literally dropped but I managed to keep a straight face as he told me he went over there the night before; he gave her a bunch of flowers, she gave him a ten second blow job. (10 seconds- either dude has no stamina or she has pornstar skills?!) I was like oh, cool. But the first chance I got alone I sat in my car with my head on the steering wheel and had a little cry. And then told myself well it was my own fucking fault for lying!
After that we went back to being friends and while he seemed the same I pulled back a little, talked about C more, not wanting to seem at all pathetic to him, not wanting him to think I was pining away for him, or to know I had shed more than a few tears on his behalf. We worked together for awhile longer before I left. He was sad when I left and said he’d miss working with me, I said you can email me? And we were Facebook friends on and off for a few years. I saw him one day, the year after I’d left, at the train station in the city. His Uni was near there and I’d started going to Melbourne Uni. I could have said hi. I didn’t. I slowly melted back into the crowd and was glad his train came next.
Like I said he married the girlfriend, they’ve got a few kids together. She clearly grew up and stopped being the partying slut she was (but hey isn’t that what our late teens/early twenties are for??).
If I’d said yes to The Question would life have been different? Would we have had a relationship? Would we have lasted? Would he have ended up with her? I’ll never know…..
P.S This turned out a lot longer than I’d expected which is why I’m going to do S with a PH next as a separate entry.
On the train on the way into the city the other night to meet friends for cocktails I overheard two girls- I say girls as I don’t think they were adults but given I’m notoriously bad at guessing ages they could well have been young looking octogenarians who say “like” every second word and whom have an extremely dismal grasp of the English language except for when it came to creative insults and swear words- discussing one’s current fuckbuddy. (Go Granny!!) It was impossible *not* to hear and thus the carriage was regaled with “Days of our, like, lives” from Box Hill to Richmond and how train girls older fuckbuddy was hot and cold and how hard it was for her to know what to even do. She and her friend discussed some possible solutions: revenge sex with one of his mates, giving him an ultimatum that he was either all in or all out, cutting him off until he made a decision, or just cutting his dick off. I, silently, voted for the castration option.
Fast forward three days to dinner and drinks with a morose friend. Her problem? The guy she was seeing, L, was driving her insane with his mind games of being totally into her one minute, then disappearing for a bit, then returning and being totally into her again, then being online all the time but ignoring her, then disappearing again (you get the picture right?). In essence L was doing to my friend what the train girl succinctly described as “doing my fucking head in with his, like, fucking bullshit.” (Direct quote.)
“Why do men do this shit? What do they gain from it? And what the hell am I expected to do?” My friend, J, asked swirling the ice in her bourbon and coke with a little too much vigour so it sloshed onto the table. “Great. Now I’m wasting alcohol on the arsehole.”
‘Because they can,’ was the answer on the tip of my tongue, feeling bitter about men at the moment due to a similar situation of my own that had been going for 3.5 years. But that answer wouldn’t help J (or train girl, or others in this situation) and this wasn’t about me.
“Well I think one of the reasons they continue to do it is because they know they can get away with it when it comes to you,” I ventured.
J nodded. “True. I know that I should turn around and say no to him the next time he comes crawling back into my life.” She said.
“But you won’t?” I guessed. “So he gets to have his cake and eat it too knowing he can disappear and then come back in your life and send you a message late at night for a booty call?”
“I can’t. I seriously can’t say no to L!” She moaned.
“Honestly J unless *you* do something about this, break the cycle or something, he will just keep doing it and things could continue like this for years. You talk about wanting a proper relationship and kids. You won’t get that out of this current situation. I think you need to speak to L and tell him that you are over this and that if he can’t stop his mind games and be a proper part of your life then he just can’t be part of it full stop.” I told her. I almost added or cut his dick off thinking of train girls slightly drastic solution.
J skulled her drink. “I know you’re right…” She said. “I’ll try…that’s really all I can promise.”
So did she? She told L that she couldn’t deal with his mind games and that he needed to make a decision. So he did. He said he didn’t want a real relationship with her, just fun, and thanked her for the good times. Two weeks later she got drunk and, yep you guessed it, drunk texted him for sex. So he’s back to his games and she’s back to feeling miserable. I just hope train girl at least stayed strong and dumped her fuckbuddy’s arse!
One of the most fun dating site trolls I’ve done in a loooooong time. 🙂
Firstly the keyword in your question is girl, not chubby. Girls like similar things regardless of weight. For instance on an anniversary most girls like flowers or chocolate or jewellery regardless if they are a size six or twenty six.
But there are some things you could do on a first date that wouldn’t necessarily make a bigger girl feel comfortable- like the beach.
Rather than focussing on her weight think about this girls personality, hobbies, likes and dislikes. If she’s adventurous go do something adventurous. If she likes the outdoors and nature look at that sort of thing.
A safe bet is always a movie and dinner for a first date. It may seem boring but it’s safe. And at least you will have something to talk about after the movie.
If you know more about the sorts of things she likes and still aren’t sure what to do feel free to hit me up with an inbox and I can try and give you some ideas.
P.S There are some ideas for non conventional dates floating around the interwebz if you google it. FG.
A friend of mine has recently separated. Without going into details in order to preserve her anonymity I will not use her name or any identifying features to her story. She and I had a chat the other day and she spoke about wanting to have sex with a guy she was super into. I said go for it. But then she added something else- she wanted her ex to know. Don’t get me wrong- I’m no fan of her ex. I think he’s been a super controlling arse throughout their entire relationship and I think he’s been playing some pretty awful mind games with her both during the relationship, during the prolonged break down of the relationship and the aftermath. If she’d just said I want this guy without that caveat I would have been her cheerleader but this was a different angle to things and something I hadn’t seen coming, especially from her. Nonetheless I got it. I think anyone who has been hurt badly by the opposite sex would get it. So, essentially, she wanted revenge sex.
Urban dictionary defines revenge sex as a “ direct result of a nymphomaniacal need for sex after a fight or other type of malicious behavior. Also linked to makeup sex, makeup sex as a result of a pre-planned fight or argument, and angry sex.” (1)
I’ve indulged in ex sex- bad idea-, heard of pity sex and even hate fucking but I’ve never had revenge sex. Perhaps this is due in part to my naive romantic nature where i don’t think sex should be used as a tool to annoy someone, to get back at someone or to get what you want. I’d want sex to mean something (even though past fwb relationships have obviously not meant anything but I have vowed in the future to not have sex with someone unless it’s something serious between us), or perhaps I just think it’s kinda….wrong. In her case her ex deserves some kind of revenge visited upon him but is revenge sex *really* the way to go? And how can she even be sure he finds out about the sex because is revenge sex even revenge sex if the person doesn’t even know it happened?
Revenge sex can be for a few reasons; you caught your partner cheating so you did it too, a rocky end to a relationship means you want to make yourself feel better and perhaps hurt him at the same time or the break up was more his idea than yours and you want him to see you can get another guy and perhaps get him to take you back. How many times have your friends encouraged you post breakup to “get back on the horse”?
So is revenge sex common? Yes. It turns out that it’s a lot more common than I knew. As one of my female friends pointed out its actually one of the first things that can cross your mind after your partner cheats or a breakup. A study conducted by the “Archives of Sexual Behavior” found that approximately one third of people have sex with someone new within four weeks of a breakup. (2) Furthermore a study conducted by the University of Missouri on 170 undergrads found that 25-30% of them when newly single engaged in revenge sex. And the worse the breakup the more likely they were to go and have revenge sex. (3)
But does it help you? I mean sure there’s clearly some short term gratification- both in the orgasm and the fact you’d be thinking fuck you ex- but long term does revenge sex help you or can it actually make things worse? Revenge sex is your way of telling yourself that you can get anyone you want if you choose to. You don’t need your partner anymore. People who indulge in revenge sex don’t do it out of love. They do it out of hate and wanting to hurt their current or former partner for hurting them. If the only person who gets hurt is your ex (assuming they even find out) then okay but when you start using sex as a tool of revenge it’s not good for you or the new partner. Because if you stop focussing on sex being a pleasurable activity and instead concentrate on using it as a way to cause distress and pain it’s pretty dehumanising. (4)
One guys account of “revenge sex” on lovepanky admitted that revenge sex was a high he couldn’t explain. “It felt powerful and made me feel good again,” he says. (5) In his case he had sex with his girlfriends friend after his girlfriend cheated. Before you say what a cunt you should know that his girlfriend was the one to suggest it and organise it in an attempt to assuage her guilt. But in the aftermath it changed things for him, which seems to be common after revenge sex. “Cheating was one thing, but revenge sex felt like premeditated murder!” He wrote.
So are there any pros to revenge sex? One article says there are. It lists valuable lessons you learn from revenge sex according to a few male and female readers. (6) The first pro was that revenge sex helps remind you of the importance of sexual chemistry. The second pro was that no strings can be fun. And finally that it can be liberating.
However in my opinion I think that revenge sex is a short term one off fix, and in the long term it’s not going to help you grieve and get over the person. Plus you’ve got to remember too there’s another person’s feelings involved too here- the person you had the sex with. After all isn’t the point of sex for you to enjoy yourself rather than be thinking about your ex and doing something primarily to hurt them? Not only is it unfair to you and definitely unfair to the person you’re having sex with but there’s the fact that revenge sex, over and over, is keeping you emotionally hooked to your ex. (7) At the end of the day revenge sex doesn’t make things even. If what you feel is hate instead of sadness, then your relationship is, or was, based on egos and dominance instead of love. Using sex as an outlet for the negative emotions you feel about your breakup—like if you’re shagging the hot gardener just to stick it to your ex- can create problems, research indicates. (8) Further the study showed that people who had revenge sex remained hung up over their breakups for much longer. After 8 months they were less likely to have found a new relationship compared to those who had post breakup sex for reasons other than pure revenge!
[Afterword: When researching this on google I got lots of hits for revenge porn which made me feel quite sick TBH. I can’t imagine the betrayal you’d feel if a private video found its way onto these sites for revenge porn. I’ve never made such a video or hell even sent naked pics but if I were to send pics I’d be hiding my face and I don’t think I’d make a video even if it was only on my phone! But the sheer prevalence of it has made me think it’s a topic I’ll look at down the track.]